Meet George Wong.
Mr. Wong works for Magnum Projects. From his profile:
A recognized leader in the marketing and sales of condominium projects, George Wong is renowned for his ability to create effective and efficient sales and marketing programs that speak directly to an identified target audience, resulting in high-velocity absorption and an increased return on marketing investment.
You may recognize his picture from last month's CBC-TV story exposing the MAC Marketing employees who posed as fake Asian buyers for the media during Chinese New Year.
In that story, Mr Wong had this exchange with the CBC:
CBC Reporter Kirk Williams: Some say irrevocable damage has been done to the Real Estate Marketing Industry. That future claims of sold out success stories will be viewed with skepticism, at best.George Wong: I hope that is an isolated incident. Unfortunately it does give the Industry a bit of a black eye.
Perhaps it is that skepticism which lead to our post two days ago about Three Harbour Green titled "What does "Sold Out" mean? Is it another way the public is being manipulated in the world of real estate sales?"
Our post questioned the validity of a real estate ad in the Vancouver Sun in which Three Harbour Green announced that the Penthouse in their building is available for $22,300,000.
Our post questioned the validity of a real estate ad in the Vancouver Sun in which Three Harbour Green announced that the Penthouse in their building is available for $22,300,000.
Our concern? The part of their ad that told potential buyers that: "all tower and townhome suites are SOLD OUT"
Our skepticism was generated by current tax reports which show 34 of the total 81 suites at Three Harbour Green registered to the address of the developer, ASPAC Developments Ltd. The validity of these tax reports was reinforced by this November 26th, 2012 article in the Vancouver Sun which advised that approximately 30% of the 81 suites at Three Harbour Green remained unsold.
Given that this project started construction in 2008, and that the Lower Mainland has been beset by stunningly weak real estate sales the past three months, we wondered if it was realistic to believe that all the tower and townhome suites at Three Harbour Green have in fact sold out... particularly since it had taken approximately 5 years to sell just 60-70% of the development.
Given that this project started construction in 2008, and that the Lower Mainland has been beset by stunningly weak real estate sales the past three months, we wondered if it was realistic to believe that all the tower and townhome suites at Three Harbour Green have in fact sold out... particularly since it had taken approximately 5 years to sell just 60-70% of the development.
As it turns out the above mentioned Magnum Projects is the marketing and sales firm for Three Harbour Green.
Yesterday we were contacted by Mr. Wong, who wished to address the questions we had raised. Here is what he had to say:
Yesterday we were contacted by Mr. Wong, who wished to address the questions we had raised. Here is what he had to say:
Dear Village Whisperer,
Your recent blog post titled “What does "Sold Out" mean? Is it another way the public is being manipulated in the world of real estate sales?” has been brought to our attention, and we wanted to provide you with the most updated information in regards to Three Harbour Green.
As the marketing and sales firm for this project, we would like to confirm that all of the homes at Three Harbour Green have been sold, with the exception of the penthouse, as the Vancouver Sun ad states.
“Sold” means a firm and binding contract with received deposit.
The majority of the Three Harbour Green homes have already closed. The remaining units are in the process of closing, which means we've received firm contracts and deposits. Units which are sold, but not yet closed, have not yet registered with the Land Title Office, which is why the tax records posted reflect the current owner, Aspac Development.
We would hope you can make an addition to your story that includes our statement and clarifies the issues. Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions.
Kind regards,
George Wong, Magnum Projects
So there you have it.
While the real estate market has been weak for the rest of the Lower Mainland, Magnum Projects has been able to defy the trend. Since the Vancouver Sun reported on November 26th, 2012 that more than 30% of the units at Three Harbour Green were unsold, Magnum states unequivocally that the development is now officially sold out (excepting the penthouse, of course).
While the real estate market has been weak for the rest of the Lower Mainland, Magnum Projects has been able to defy the trend. Since the Vancouver Sun reported on November 26th, 2012 that more than 30% of the units at Three Harbour Green were unsold, Magnum states unequivocally that the development is now officially sold out (excepting the penthouse, of course).
We thank Mr. Wong, and Magnum Projects, for taking the time to address the issue for us.
==================
Click 'comments' below to contribute to this post.
Please read disclaimer at bottom of blog.
![[Most Recent Quotes from www.kitco.com]](http://www.kitconet.com/charts/metals/gold/t24_au_en_usoz_2.gif)
![[Most Recent Quotes from www.kitco.com]](http://www.kitconet.com/charts/metals/silver/t24_ag_en_usoz_2.gif)
![[Most Recent Quotes from www.kitco.com]](http://www.weblinks247.com/indexes/idx24_usd_en_2.gif)
Easiest way to determine if it really sold out is to call the sales office, pose as a buyer and see if you can purchase a unit.
ReplyDeleteAnd we are supposed to take this on.... good faith?
ReplyDeleteWell then three months from now we should check to confirm that these properties have in fact changed hands. George Wong wouldn't lie to us....or would he? June 14th let's find out.
ReplyDeleteHe is being very careful and precise with his language. I would be surprised if anything he says in the correspondence, especially to the Whisperer, is false.
ReplyDeleteThat doesn't mean that units still can't be bought though.
Sure, you can buy from any investors who purchased a unit, if they are willing to sell and you you both come to an agreement on price.
DeleteI'm in agreement with you, and also the comments below. Unless I understand who are the buyers and the terms of the sales, how am I supposed to interpret the word "sold"? Maybe we will learn some more key details as time goes on, and maybe not.
DeleteI doubt he'd risk his reputation to lie in a public statement? I actually found Wong's response refreshing compared to Cam of MAC Marketing...yet to explain himself, thanking the blogging gods that the story "has died down".
ReplyDeleteGood for Magnum, not so good for the buyers who have already lost 10-15% on their purchase.
ReplyDeleteUnless they bought in bulk and got a 10-15% discount from whatever equivalent re-sale prices were at the time. Who knows what goes on in the pre-sale world.
Delete"“Sold” means a firm and binding contract with received deposit."
ReplyDeleteCall me a skeptic, but I guess they can always find someone to pay a $1 deposit for their units and set the closing date in year 2046. Then, of course, if someone else is interested they would break the binding contract with this first fellow.
Think the above scenario is far-fetched? The building was completed like a year ago, any binding contracts should have been fully executed already in the "real" world.
Excellent point. With the building long since completed what would be valid reasons for these supposed buyers to not have closed their purchases by now?
DeletePerhaps, since Coal Harbour prices have tanked in the last year or so, these buyers were being sticky about closing. Maybe trying to get out or trying renegotiating the price.
Delete"Maybe trying to get out or trying renegotiating the price."
DeleteAgain, in the real world, if the buyer were not able / willing to complete by a specific date, which should be sometime before today, then the buyer's deposit is forfeited and the developer re-lists it for sale.
Developer's don't let pre-sale buyers off the hook that easily. They'll sue you if you don't close, or else the pre-sale buyer has to try to find some loop hole to get out, as the buyers at the Georgia project are trying to do.
DeleteIf the market's up, they'll probably more easily give the buyer their deposit back as they can sell the unit for more. But, if the market's down, as it is now, I doubt that the developer would happily hand the deposits back.
In another news, a condo in Hong Kong that made headlines for being the highest price per SF got "sold out" quickly. It turns out all but a few units in the 66-unit building have been sold to the same company who has connections to the developer.
ReplyDeletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/39_Conduit_Road
Let's just check these 30 units specifically as time progresses. Either they change hands, or they don't. And we can look at the 30 addresses and pretty easily find out if they just sold them to a handful of investors or holding companies for ASPAC. I really hope George doesn't think the Internet is stupid or that our resources are limited. There are many creative people here that combined are better than any investigative reporter out there. Good luck, Magnum.
ReplyDeleteMr.Wong.....pigs will fly, but he BS doesn't stick as much as in the past.
ReplyDeleteBefore jumping to conclusions I would question the reliability of the Sun's "approximately" 30% unsold figure.
ReplyDeleteYeah... because a development company isn't going to say 'boo' when a major daily newspaper incorrectly states the building is 30% unsold after five years... but that same company is going to jump all over a blog when it questions the sales figures.
DeleteLOL
70% pre-sold would probably be enough to get financing and start building, so it doesn't seem like an unreasonable figure at that time.
DeleteIs this possible this the "Trump" tower in Vancouver? Sold but not closed. Investors walked away? Surely, a year away from the building being completed--this is a long process for closing for after those runaway speculators. Just guess.
ReplyDeleteDevelopers build buildings to sell units, they don't build buildings to not sell units. If they still had these units unsold they wouldn't say that there weren't any for sale.., defeats the purpose. They might say that there are only a few left, hurry on down, or some such thing, but not that they're gone. Especially as this was their last Phase.
ReplyDeleteBut, it is very interesting that Aspac seemed to be taking a while to close on these deals, usually pre-sale buyers take possession upon completion. That is a very interesting piece of information.
This is pointless, suggesting this guy is a liar by innuendo and thinking you'll get an inside look at these transactions. The problem is the real estate industry is opaque. It's private transactions between developers and wholesalers who horde product and hold pricing up and/or sell to offshore buyers moving money into Canada against their home country rules.
ReplyDeleteThe people who suffer are the buyers tied to local economy who believe local demand is driving prices or that one day prices will reflect local incomes & wages.
Good for Mr. Wong. He has firm contracts and deposits in place and now can move on to his next project. He has shown you the wall, which you are not permitted to look behind, and the door at the same time.
You may find it an irrational thing for the developer to do, but that's indeed what many developers do in Hong Kong (unlike here, property ownership is public information in HK so you know exactly who owns what.) They will do whatever to keep the prices inflated, and not selling their inventory is only one tactics. They have the willingness and the means to do it, as these companies' balance sheet can tell you.
DeleteAnd you must know that Aspac is owned by a HK property tycoon.
Your point is well taken. Developers hold inventory back by not developing land, as both these Marathon lands and Concord Pacific have done, bringing on one tower at a time. Developers also watch each other and do not try to bring on too many units in an area at the same time. Having these large land parcels owned by two developers has help to create scarcity. (Which is also why they love NIMBY's)
DeleteHowever, once the ball starts rolling on a project thru rezoning and construction there no incentive to hold back on pre-sales. Holding back 10 or 20 units in a building is nothing in a market where they've carefully managed the absorption of 2,500 units (Marathon) or 10,000 units (Concord).
PS. And how many development firms aren't owned by HK tycoons? (Okay there's the Italians, but that 's about it)
Anonymous, holding back inventory as a sales tactic to manage prices scales just fine, and works on any level, whether entire city blocks, or a 10 unit development.
DeleteMy stance is the same as many posters here, even taking Mr Wong's statements at face value; that is why are there still outstanding contracts a year after completion? They don't sound very sold to me. The cynic inside me says if you were to come to them with a suitcase of money to buy a unit, one would "magically" become available to you, as some itchy pre-sale buyer gets released from his contract.
And to think that this little corner of the blogsphere has got the BC Real Estate on their toes.
ReplyDeleteGood work Whisperer, glad to see someone keeping these guys accountable.
This story should be revisited in 3-6 months to see if the units closed. If they have not then Mr. Wong should be held accountable for the above statement.
Geez, just because they got buyers delaying closing doesn't mean this is some conspiracy theory. If 3-6 months from now these buyers have wiggled out, that will be news, but it doesn't mean Wong or Aspac are liars.
DeleteWhen almost 40% are suddenly are purchased after they told the Vancouver Sun on Nov 26th they hadn't sold - even five years after sales began... then something is wrong.
DeleteSome guy flew in from HK or China and bought them all as a block at a discount rate; lawyers still closing the deal. Aspac probably already broke even somewhere between 60-80% of sale, so no rush for them.
DeleteProjects like Coal Harbour and Concord were making profits in the 90's when prices were less than half what they are now. Certainly construction costs are up since then, but one can only wonder what profit margins these guys are making now.
And they bought everything except the penthouse? I don't believe that.
DeletePenthouse hard to flip. One bedroom, two bedroom not so much.
DeleteBullshit. PR spin, pointless taking a manipulator's damage control attempt as fact.
ReplyDeleteI'm beginning to think that "sold" is a four letter word...
ReplyDeleteI suspect that a few foreign buyers purchased multiple units, as a means of moving corrupt money out of China. They also have every intention of re-selling these units, most likely through the developer as an assignment of contract. Therefore, the completion dates for these "sold" units may be a year or two down the line.
ReplyDeleteBut this corrupt money doesn't purchase the crown jewel, the penthouse?
DeleteHistorically the hardest unit to sell is the one below the penthouse, but in this place everything sells but the penthouse?
And supposedly the surge in sales is to corrupt Asian money out of China but they don't buy the penthouse?
This gets fishier and fishier with each passing moment.
Do rich people actually find prospective properties via the mass media? If I was forking out 22 mill for a penthouse I'm sure I'd have a snotty, exclusive RE agent with the inside scoop on all suitable properties, regardless of whether they are available or not. I've always thought the ads in the papers for outrageously priced properties are weird, some sort of manipulative gimmick to keep the serfs drinking the kool-aid.
ReplyDeleteWell, the units may well be under contract. Time will tell.
ReplyDeleteInteresting to know the debt structure of the builder. And/Or the lender's name(s).
I sure would not want to be in the supply/construction biz in the Lower Mainland right now.
Three built be Aspac
http://www.buzzbuzzhome.com/db/aspac
Aspac now developing
http://www.rivergreen.com/
Now Selling? But not on MLS
http://www.realtor.ca/map.aspx#acr:false;ac:false;baths:0-0;beds:0-0;fp:false;gar:false;pmin:0;pmax:0;rmin:0;rmax:0;openh:false;pool:false;stories:0-0;buildingstyle:;buildingtypeid:;viewtypeid:;waterfront:false;forsale:true;forrent:false;orderBy:A;sortBy:1;LisStartDate:;mapZ:17;page:1;mapC:49.173497455676035, -123.1552952528;curView:;curStyle:r;leftMin:false;rightMin:false;chkSchl:false;chkTran:false;chkPol:false;chkMed:false;chkWrk:false;chkFire:false;chkAll:false
Lets take another look.
ReplyDeleteDid flippers buy Three? Maybe
http://www.motsang.com/ActiveListings.php/Details/146#viewdetail
http://www.motsang.com/PrintPDF.php?listingid=146
Maybe not
The data relating to real estate on this web site comes in part from the MLS Reciprocity program of the Real Estate Board of Greater Vancouver. Real estate listings held by participating real estate firms are marked with the MLSR logo and detailed information about the listing includes the name of the listing agent. This representation is based in whole or part on data generated by the Real Estate Board of Greater Vancouver which assumes no responsibility for its accuracy. The materials contained on this page may not be reproduced without the express written consent of the Real Estate Board of Greater Vancouver. Copyright 2013 by the Real Estate Board of Greater Vancouver, Fraser Valley Real Estate Board, Chilliwack and District Real Estate Board, BC Northern Real Estate Board, and Kootenay Real Estate Board. All Rights Reserved
Certainly doesn't look like anyones lived in it. A couch and a couple of kitchen chairs. I guess they only bothered with those so a potential buyer can sit down for while.
DeletePersonally I think you caught them in a lie and they've given a vague, catch-all answer to save face.
ReplyDeleteI give Wong credit for contacting you directly to offer his explanation, but I just don't see all those units selling that quickly while the Penthouse languishes on the market.