Showing posts with label Vancouver Price Drop website. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Vancouver Price Drop website. Show all posts

Friday, June 7, 2013

Re-listing and hiding price reductions. Realtor examines data and "results yield completely different story."


For those who follow the real estate bear blogs, it is a well known practice.

In an attempt to hide seller desperation, property listings are pulled and re-listed with a new MLS number.  It helps hide the number of days a property has been on the market, not to mention some of the price drops a property has had. Because let's face it, when buyer's sell desperation, the lowballing intensifies.

Vancouver Observer noticed this practice over a year ago on his excellent site, Vancouver Price Drop. So prominent is the practice that Observer now tracks all old MLS listings for a property to give us a true insight into the selling history of a property.

In this weeks Vancouver West detached spotlight, the top property for price reductions is at 1010 West 57th:


1010 West 57th pulled it's listing on January 16th, 2013 and relisted with a new MLS number on January 25th, 2013.  This move helps hide 291 days of market availability as well as $1,000,000 in price reductions.

This property, however, is a very minor example of the relisting phenomenon.  Observer has made several interesting posts in the past charting relisting champions.

Interestingly realtor Arnold Shuchat also touched on this phenomenon in a post on his blog today charting this week's biggest price declines in Richmond.
Publishing these price reduction blogs on a regular basis is time consuming. But this week's Price Reduction report was even more so. I have observed that for almost every week that the price reductions are published, the average reduction is between 4-5% regardless of property type, give or take 1%. Under a hypothesis that those averages do not really tell the whole story, I conducted a search of every price reduction listing to review the price history from the time it was first listed. The results yield a completely different story as I suspected. I am not going to undertake this every week, but as an eye opener and to make a point of what's really going on I did it this week. The numbers speak for themselves and here is the summary:

The average price reduction since originally listed is 11% instead of the most recent 5%. But, if we take the top 10 price reductions since listed, the average is approximately 20%! And, the properties are not yet sold!
The real estate industry official line is that price reductions are minimal and that sellers are holding firm with their prices. The industry insists any price declines are only minimal.

But anyone conducting a proper, detailed analysis is uncovering quite a different story.

Surprised?

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Wednesday, June 5, 2013

Red Pill or Blue Pill? Median Price data and spinning the numbers to boost buyer confidence.



In pop culture the blue pill and its opposite, the red pill, are symbols representing the choice between the blissful ignorance of illusion (blue) and embracing the sometimes painful truth of reality (red).

The terms derive from the 1999 film The Matrix. 

In the movie, the main character Neo is offered the choice between a red pill and a blue pill. The blue pill would allow him to remain in the fabricated reality of the Matrix. The red pill would lead to his escape from the Matrix and into the "real world".

Realtor Larry Yatkowsky plays off the pop culture pill reference in his latest post which gives us the median price data from May, a contrast from May's average price data a few days ago.

Removing the skewed data of high sales and low volume, the charts show most area prices dropping last month.

Of course data is meaningless without the right spin and the real estate spinmeisters are in overdrive this month as the battle for 'consumer confidence' is endlessly waged.

May is often considered the bellwether month for real estate sales. And while the number of home sales last month is still well below the 10 year average, the numbers are up from last month and there is an increase year-over-year in some categories.

Of course 2012 was a dreadful year so any increase, no matter how small, is cause for celebration right?

For example there were 1,212 detached property sales in Vancouver in May, up from April’s 1,064. 

But those sales are down 22.8% compared to May 2012.

Detached unit sales in May 2013 totalled 534, an increase of 3.3% compared to the 517 sales in May 2012.

That figure, however, is down 7.8% from the 579 attached properties sold in May 2011.

So it all comes down to how you want to look at it.

The real estate industry (naturally) see's great potential in this data. Toss in the fact that a condo listed for $28 million in downtown Vancouver - which has languished on the market for almost 2 years - has now sold for $3 million below it's asking price (yet still setting a record for the most expensive condo sold in Vancouver) and the fodder is there for the spinners to declare the correction over and real estate taking off towards a new housing boom!



It's all about confidence and massaging that theme is sure to take on prominence in the coming weeks.

Perhaps the coming glut of 'good news' will perk up these sellers? Observer's Vancouver Price Drop is back after a three week break. He has the monthly drop for May 2013 for us and and the top 20 properties this time around combine for a stunning $98 million in price cuts from their original asking prices. If there's a group that needs confidence and massaging it's this bunch.

Presumably they are still depressed from reports, like this one, which trumpet that Canadian homes remain the most overvalued in world wide rankings.

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Friday, February 8, 2013

It's been 8 months since the HPI peak... how does Vancouver compare?



The image above is from an interesting chart posted by Observer over on Vancouver Price Drop.

As faithful readers know it has been eight months since we hit what now appears to have been the peak of our housing bubble (using the industry's franken-number, the HPI).

So it begs the question... how does Vancouver compare to US cities  when they were 8 months into their housing collapse?

That chart you see above plots the progress of Phoenix, Los Angeles, San Diego, Washington, Miami, Tampa Bay, Chicago, Boston, Minneapolis, Las Vegas, New York, Portland, Seattle and... Vancouver.

Vancouver is represented by the green line with the green circle:


The other cities identified as such:


Each starts at what is now accepted as their peak. Observer has combined the data from Vancouver West, Vancouver East, North Vancouver, West Vancouver, Richmond, Burnaby and New Westminster to provide a representation of the metro Vancouver area.

 The data is taken from the MLS HPI

To give you a sense of what is happening in our housing bubble, after 8 months Vancouver has plunged faster than all those other cities did at the 8 month point of their drop (with the exception of  Miami).

That's a chilling statistic.

Here is the full graph with the other cities plotted over 48 months as their collapses played out fully.

Where will our's be in a year and a half?

When you consider that realtor's like James Wong believe the market looks ripe for a very meaningful correction in the months ahead, it gives you pause to consider the broader picture with grave apprehension.

(click on image to enlarge):







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Wednesday, January 30, 2013

Seller Psychology




It's always fascinating to observe the manoeuvres of some of the participants in our real estate housing bubble.

It's not that it's different from that of sales in other product streams, as anyone who has spent time on eBay will attest.  You see similar behavioural patterns amongst some sellers there as well.

And the underlying pattern?  Greed and a compulsion to chase the market.

Increasingly on Observer's wonderful Vancouver Price Drop blog you see examples like 3711 West 11th Ave in Vancouver.


This 12 year old,  4 bedroom, 2,204 sq ft home sits on a 3,660 sq ft lot in Point Grey at W. 11th and Alma Street.  The listing description says:
Well maintained, like new 12 years old 4 bedrooms home in most sought after Point Grey Area. Designed by Formwerks with Classic outlook with 2200 SF of contemporary living. Impressive formal living & dining room are great place for entertaining. Kitchen with open concept. Main floor features 10' ceiling, gleaming Brazilian cherry wood throughout and gas fireplaces in living & family room. Upper floor has 4 bedrooms or 3+den. N facing bedrooms have mountain view. Downstairs offers a nanny room & 3 piece bath. All appliances, hood fan and carpets were replaced in 2010. Double garage, security system, fully fenced front & back yards. Lord Byng High School & QE Elementary School Catchment. Priced below 2013 assessment


The house has been almost continuously listed for the past two years and it has sat empty all that time. It's actually been on the market since 2006 and got pulled during 2007-2009.

Clearly the seller doesn't have to sell.  As a result, they are constantly chasing the market.

On October 06, 2006 it was listed for $1,374,800. Watch the history of price changes after that.

October 23, 2006 - $1,298,000
November 18, 2006 - 1,272,800
December 11, 2006 - removed after 66 days.

The house stayed off the market throughout 2007, 2008 and 2009.  As the market rebounded in 2009, our intrepid sellers tried to capitalize on the rebound and chased a climbing market, presumably influenced by the market assessments.

January 22, 2010 - $1,575,000
March 05, 2010 - removed after 42 days
May 20, 2011 - $2,188,800
November 18, 2011 - removed after 182 days
November 23, 2011 - $2,088,000

At the start of 2012, the 2011 Assessment would have come out. The assessed value of this house: $1,763,000

February 22, 2012 - listing removed after 91 days
March 01, 2012 - $2,128,000
March 28, 2012 - $1,998,000
April 16, 2012 - removed after 46 days
April 26, 2012 - $1,888,000
June 11, 2012 - removed after 46 days
June 15, 2012  - $1,798,000
September 08, 2012 - $1,668,000
November 01, 2012 - removed after 139 days

Then the 2012 Assessment came out in January 2013. New assessed value: $1,618,000

On January 23, 2013 the house was relisted for $1,580,000

It's almost comical to watch. I'm sure when they eventually drop their asking price to the 2006 price of $1,270,000... they will still maintain they "just want what our house is worth."

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Monday, January 7, 2013

Is Macleans correct? Is Vancouver already crashing?


Saturday's post about Maclean's magazine's cover story is clearly the hot topic in real estate circles right now.

Besides bringing the collapsing housing bubble issue front and centre, the real estate industry is all a tither about the defacto way in which Macleans presents it's argument.

The angst is best summed up by this tweet from the website Canadian Mortgage Trends (click image to enlarge):


The industry is pissed Maclean's didn't allow access to their spin.

Local Richmond realtor, Arnold Shuchat even popped by our little corner of the internet and offered the following response to the article in our comments section:
As usual, the general press when trying to get into the specifics of a particular industry without any detailed knowledge of same creates eye popping headlines which are of more relevance to its business than to the target of its supposed study.
Faithful readers have been jumping all over 'Alphabet Arnie' (a moniker one commentator dubbed him with for using his education credentials after his google ID), but it is worthwhile noting that Mr. Shuchat is one of our local real estate agents who has been very upfront about the evolving maket conditions during the past year.

Shuchat regularly provides copious market data about price declines.

Every week Shuchat will post the top 10 price declines for properties in Richmond as well as keeping track of notable price declines in various neighbourhoods around Richmond.

As he notes:
The average observer may have had his head in the sand in Vancouver, but the market has already moved down some 25% depending upon the particular sector.
When was the last time you saw a realtor come out and tell you the market has already dropped 25% in places?  Instead all we hear from most is that the market is 'flat'.

Shuchat is from Richmond and as we know all too well, Richmond has been ground zero for last year's implosion ever since the images of the Japan Tsunami spread around the globe.  

[One wonders how Friday night's Tsunami warning might jar memories for prospective buyers considering the delta lands in the coming months, but that's a topic for another post]

Notwithstanding, Shuchat acknowledges he is in the eye of the current collapse.  But going forward he see's things starting to turn around:
Being right in the middle of it, I detect a renewed vigor among buyers as of the end of November... I see prices holding firm and buyers coming back in. The effect of all this now, is that garbage will not sell as fast as it would have and properties will have to be better prepared for the sale.
Shuchat says many Richmond properties are owned by people who "do not have to sell."

Finally Shuchat notes:
Frankly, from the inside of this industry, I think MacLeans missed their call by about 8-11 months in the west coast market, and, short of producing additional fear into the market by their article, signals to me that additional opportunities can be reaped in the existing climate by betting against broad brush articles with incendiary pictures produced by newsmaking press.
The incendiary pictures being painted by the newsmaking press are their attempt to capture what is actually happening.  With that in mind, I can't help but focus on a key point Shuchat makes: that Macleans has missed their call by about 8-11 months.

Has the market been 'flat' the last half year or has it been crashing for about 8-11 months?

Fellow blogger Observer, at his blog Vancouver Price Drop, brings this question to the forefront  in his latest post and offers a stunning comparison between Vancouver  (at our current stage of our collapse) and with what has happened in the United States.

How does Vancouver compare with other US cities at the same stage of the popping of their real estate bubble?

In Vancouver, the peak looks to have been May 2012.  

If we look at the westside of Vancouver, 6 month into the unwinding we are down -8.6%.  

After 8 months we are down -11.1%. 

At this rate it's not a stretch to believe it will be down 15% after 12 months. 

Using the Case-Shiller data for single family homes, how does this drop stack up against our US counterparts? (click on image to enlarge):


6 months into our drop, Vancouver's westside had dropped 50% faster than ANY AMERICAN CITY! And we are on track to be ahead of all cities, except Miami, after 12 months.

As Observer notes, this is not a "flat housing market" nor is it a "soft landing."

Maclean's is really the first mainstream media to report on what is happening.  Given the dynamics of the recent mortgage rule changes, current evolving economic conditions and levels of Canadian household debt... they don't see the conditions that will put the brakes on this slide.

How can you blame them for forecasting anything but a crash?

It will be interesting to see their cover six months from now.

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012

A Vancouver property assessment not worth the paper it's printed on?



Last week ushered in Vancouver's first entry in the -50% below assessed value club.

And while it technically falls just short of the -50% mark (it's currently listed at -47% below assessed value) you can be sure it will solidly join the club before long... with hundreds of other units quickly following suit.

Believe it or not, the property is located just to the west of the Olympic Village in False Creek.

Allow me to introduce you to #206-1477 Fountain Way:


This 2 bedroom, 2 bathroom condo which is 1,377 square feet in size is currently assessed at $463,000.


Current asking price? $250,000 or -47% below assessed value.

As with all our entries in the -50% club, this property has 'issues'.

#206-1477 Fountain Way is a leasehold property.  And the lease is owned by the City of Vancouver.

In the mid 1970s, housing was constructed along False Creek and leased for 60-year terms. The idea was to rehabilitate what was then contaminated industrial land by utilizing a combination of leased land and co-op housing programs to provide a mix of one-third social, one-third mid-market and one-third full market housing.

Thus was born the South West False Creek community plan. Cars were discouraged, transit was provided and Vancouver City Hall trumpeted how 5,000 residents built a strong, successful, sustainable community across from the downtown core.

By leasing the land, rather than selling it, the city boasted it had achieved affordable housing and retained the land value in the city’s Property Endowment Fund.

And by using densities that were considered high in their day — there isn’t a single family home in the entire area — the city-driven project sparked all the massive changes we now see around the Creek.

In return Condo residents on leased land paid monthly charges to the city that could be raised from time to time to market levels. Residents could also pre-pay a fixed amount for the outstanding term of the lease.

Fixed annual rents were set for the first 30 years of the leases, and increases were possible on the 30th, 40th, and 50th years of the leases. The increases were pre-determined by a formula outlined at the time the leases were signed.

But as the first 30 years came to a close in 2006, and it was time to re-examine the False Creek lease payments, land values in Vancouver increased far beyond what had been anticipated when the formulas were originally established. 

The City of Vancouver proposed raising lease fees to market levels.

But this was 2006, soon after Millennium had paid top dollar for the Olympic Village land nearby.  '

Market levels' were about to be massively distorted by the highest amount ever paid for land in the city to that time.

The 5,000 residents of the S.W. False Creek community plan - those who had  "built a strong, successful, sustainable community" - were about to suffered massive collateral damage from the Olympic Village land purchase.   In 2006 the newspaper, 24 hours, wrote:
"Richard Cooper woke yesterday to find his payments had jumped from $102 monthly to $785.

“I got up this morning and there was a bulletin,” Cooper told 24 hours.

Condo owner George Stratis was among the hardest hit. He wasn’t aware of the increase until he was contacted by 24 hours yesterday. “You’ve got to be kidding me! That’s absurd,” Stratis said, when told his payments had jumped by $1,400 a month. “That’s larger than a mortgage.”

Stratis could now owe the city about $20,000 a year. That’s on top of his regular property taxes.”

One owner has seen their payments raise from $121.50 to $2,000 – An incredible SIXTEEN HUNDRED PERCENT increase! The city claims that these lease rates have been stuck at a low value for thirty years and that todays increase reflects the current value of the land. Leasehold value has been a contentious issue between residents of False Creek and the city of Vancouver for years. Some residents claim this former industrial land is contaminated and overvalued by as much as 40-50 per cent.

“They’re simply boldly making the statement saying this land is worth top dollar and we should be getting as much rent for it as if it were clean,” said Renger, a senior city planner in another jurisdiction. “That’s not what market land value is about.”
As Director of Real Estate Services, Michael Flanigan, noted in a June 26, 2007 administrative report to city council, “Some leaseholders simply did not have the financial ability to prepay their leases on top of paying monthly mortgage debt, taxes, strata fees, ground rent, and special assessments.”

Ultimately the City agreed to go arbitration and to allow one more prepayment option. The end result were lease payments on a scale of $900 per month instead of an average increase of $1,200 per month.

And while the initial conflict over the lease increases has been resolved the damage has been done.

In a prophetic comment made earlier this summer Neil Hamilton, Senior Property Advisor with MacDonald Realty, identified the looming catastrophe which was clear to all to see:
“The thing you have to remember is, when you go into a lease, no matter how it’s set up, you have to know how long is left in it. Because once it gets under 10 years, and certainly under 5 years, the property is going to be much less saleable than one that has, say, 35 or 40 left on it. Because, at the end of that lease, nobody knows what’s going to happen to it. It’s like a game of musical chairs—or, in this case, musical buildings. When the music stops playing, you don’t want to be the person left holding the bag."
Hamilton, however, was overly optimistic. In the summer he predicted residents would have to wait until the lease gets under 10 years (which is 15 years from now) before they are left holding the bag.

But with 25 years left in those leases, it's already happening.

#206-1477 Fountain Way is assessed at $463,000. 

On November 05, 2010 it was listed for sale for $574,900. On March 28, 2011, after 143 days on the market, it was removed because no one wanted to touch it. It has been re-listed (and removed) four additional times since then - with a lower asking price on each successive listing.

On December 12, 2012 the property was listed for fifth time.  The asking price: $250,000... -47% below it's so-called assessed value.

In our collapsing housing bubble, leaseholders are now clearly holding that proverbial bag. And it's happening 15 years before local real estate agents predicted it would occur.

They're finding out - a little earlier than everyone else - that their 2011/2012 government property assessments aren't worth the paper their written on.

So there you have it.  2012 is topped off by ending with -50% below assessed value real estate listings  entering the City proper.

Who would have thunk it?

(Hat tip Observer @ Vancouver Price Drop)

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Monday, December 10, 2012

We now have an entry in the -60% below assessed value category


Even I have to admit that it's a surprise to see an entry in the -60% below assessed value category this early into the collapse of our housing bubble. I wasn't expecting the first one until at least late spring of 2013.

Naturally it is another property with 'issues' that breaks this barrier.  As we have noted before, these are the properties that will lead the way.

That doesn't mean their dropping value isn't impressive. A year ago it would have been unthinkable to even conceive they would listed for 25% below assessed, let alone -30%, -40%, -50% and now... -60%.

And today's entry is a new one for us.

Courtesy of Observer and Vancouver Price Drop, this is 28241 108th Ave, Maple Ridge (click on image to enlarge):


As the description notes, this 16 acre parcel with a slight slope sits in an area of nicer homes.

It only has a 1 bedroom, 1 bathroom 1,200 square foot structure on it, so the interest is - obviously - in the 16 acres of land.

This is a court ordered sale. And not a simple foreclosure, either.

As the listing notes, you can't get a mortgage for this property because the site is in violation of Ministry of the Environment, the Agricultural Land Commission and the District of Maple Ridge's Regulations and Bylaws because the property has been used as a dump site.

But for those who are liquid enough to take advantage (and can cover the cleanup costs) this property - assessed at $800,000 - is currently listed for $300,000.

Will it get bid up in the foreclosure process?

Or is this another property which will dance the price limbo to see how low it will go?

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Thursday, December 6, 2012

Thurs Post #2: Holy Asset Depreciation, Batman



How low will it go?

Last Friday we told you about #204-3411 Springfield Drive in Richmond. Today we have a significant update.

When we brought it to your attention, it was one of our newest entries in the 30% below assessment assessment club. Here is the screenshot we showed you last week - provided by the blog Vancouver Price Drop

(click on image to enlarge)


The condo is a foreclosure sale.

Listed as a spacious 3 bedroom, 2 bath, end unit condo overlooking the courtyard, it has languished on the market since May.

It has a huge private enclosed balcony off the living room, generous-sized bedrooms, a walk-in closet and 2 piece ensuite bathroom in the master bedroom.

Complex amenities include: sauna, outdoor pool and 2 guest suites. It's locate within walking distance  of the Steveston Public Market, Richmond dyke's, a park, public transit, Manoah Steves Elementary  School and Huge Boyd Secondary School. 

Assessment value: $265,900.

The asking price last week: $185,000... 30% below assessed value.

Well, that asking price has been slashed again - big time. Chop another $45,100 off that price and the current asking price is now $139,900:


That's right, from $185,000 down to $139,900.

It's now $126,000 below assessed value or 47% under that last assessed value.

Will this be the first property in Richmond that sells for 50% below 2012's assessed value?

This complex was originally built in 1972. With weekly drops like the last one, we'll be down to the original selling price before long.

Even if you don't go back that far, the past decade has already been a wild ride for the 'value' of this unit.

(hat tip bopeep @ Vancouver Price Drop)



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Wednesday, November 14, 2012

Wed Post #1: We now have a property being offered for more than 40% below assessed value.



Last week, in one of our posts, we made note of how it was becoming common to see listings where the asking prices on properties was over 30% below assessed value.

We asked, "how much longer until we have a property priced or selling 40% below assessed value?"

Naturally it is Observer (and his excellent blog Vancouver Price Drop) who serves up the first one for  us.

This is an apartment block in White Rock at 1371 Foster Street.


Unit #306 is for sale with the following description:
2 bed, 2 bath top floor unit in the heart of White Rock. This unit boasts a large master bedroom, walk thru closet, lots of storage and an Ocean View. Great extra’s such as in suite laundry, updated kitchen, fresh paint, attractive crown mouldings and large balcony with ocean views. Walking distance to shopping dining and the beach, no rentals, 19 plus and pets allowed with restrictions.
Assessed value? $228,200.

Current asking price? $119,900.

That's a stunning 47% below current assessed value.

Now it must be noted that this building has an upcoming strata repair assessment of $63,000 that will be levied against owners.

But notwithstanding this, we have seen condo units with large levies before and it is a reflection of the current market that even with an asking price almost 50% below assessed value, there are no takers.

Hovering near this 40% below assessed value level is a unit in this White Rock complex at 15369 Thrift Avenue:


Unit #206 is described as:
a freehold unit in the heart of White Rock, just steps to new town developments, shops, restaurants, library, hospital and beach! The unit has been totally updated and looks/feels like new. Wellmaintained complex with new roof, pet friendly and free laundry! Low maintenance fee includes heat and hot water. Live near the beach in this prestigious location for way less than the assessed value!
Assessed value: $140,800.

Current asking price: $89,000.

That's an asking price 37% below assessed value... and there's no looming strata repair bill hanging over the purchaser's head.

Right now many homeowner's, instead of heeding advice to aggressively cut asking prices, are pulling their homes off the market for winter to re-list in the Spring. They are doing this in the hope of a post-winter market resurgence.

Meanwhile other homeowners are in the process of aggressively slashing asking prices.

Will those who choose to wait, come back in Spring to a market that is even in worse shape than it is now?

We have one property (that we have come across) that is more than 40% below assessed value and many others in the +30% range.

It will be interesting to compare those numbers with levels in the Spring.

If you come across other properties 40% below assessed value, let us know and we will profile them.

At the start of the year people laughed at the concept that we would see ANY properties 10% or greater below assessed value. And now we are talking about some being 40% below assessed value.

Was it really only as recently as June 8th of this year when speculating on drops of 30% was dismissed as something out of the Twilight Zone?

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Thursday, November 8, 2012

Properties 30% or greater below assessed value becoming common?



As we watch real estate here on the wet coast, the focus has moved from properties that are greater than 25% below assessed value to those greater than 30% below assessed value.

We have profiled the house in Richmond that sold for 33% below assessed value. There was the Olympic Village 'penthouse' advertised as asking 34% below original sale price.

And now some recent Surrey properties now have shown up with asking prices more than 30% below assessed value.

Observer had his Surrey profile on Vancouver Price Drop this past week and these properties were notable:

14896 60th Ave, Surrey (click on images to enlarge)



A 16,600 sq ft property with a  large 3 level split family home featuring 4 bedrooms and recreation/games room is assessed at $1,287,000.

Current asking price?  $900,000.

That's an asking price $387,000 below assessed value or 30% below assessed value.  And still no buyer is in sight! Meaning it will probably sell for less.


#105-9632 120A Street, Surrey


At the other end of the price spectrum is this 1,354 sq ft 2 bedroom condo with no rental restrictions and pet friendly building near Scott Rd and 96th.

Assessed value: $203,000. Current asking price: $139,900.

That's an asking price $63,100 below assessed value or 31% below assessed value and no buyer in sight!

Critics contend citing these examples is 'cherry picking' to create a misleading assessment of the market. But the fact is a year ago the idea you could even FIND properties selling below assessed value (let alone with an asking price below assessed value) was considered impossible.

Six months ago finding properties 20% below assessed value was criticized as rare and 'the exception'.

Now properties with an asking price below assessed value is the accepted practice, 20% below accepted value relatively common and numerous sightings at 30% or greater below assessed value.

How much longer until we have a property priced or selling 40% below assessed value?

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Tuesday, October 2, 2012

Tues Post #1: From the outrageous down to the merely obscene; the continuing saga of 3390 The Crescent - amended



Last year, on November 22, 2011, we told you about this house at 3390 The Crescent in Vancouver's Shaughnessy neighbourhood.

Profiled in the Vancouver Sun newspaper, the mansion had gone on the market for $31.9 million.

The Crescent lies at the heart of one of Vancouver's most upscale neighbourhood's. The street itself is a  circular road with a lovely park in the middle and 3390 is a palatial white house that sits on an acre sized lot where The Crescent meets Osler Street.

The house is 10,516 sq. ft spread over three storeys. There are six bedrooms, eight bathrooms and five fireplaces, along with a wine cellar, a games room, a gym and staff quarters. With a backyard pool, a koi pond, a greenhouse, and large, beautifully landscaped grounds; the home is 'palatial' in every sense of the word.


What makes this mansion stand out is it's selling history.

The current owners bought the home in April 2004 for $6 million.

Last year they listed it for sale for $17.9 million... but there were no takers at that 'bargain' price.

And we say 'bargain' because after casting an eye at the high prices mansions were commanding in area in 2011 (for example: a house had sold in 2010 on Angus Drive for $5.7 million. It was assessed in October 2011 at $9 million, a reflection of our extreme bubble condition), the owners of 3390 The Crescent decided to raise the asking price from $17.9 million to $31.9 million.

That's right.

The home they bought for $6 million had failed to sell for $17.9 million... so they doubled the asking price to $31.9 million.

Who says there's a disconnect in our real estate market?

Well it seems something resembling reality (if you can call it that) is starting to enter our market.

Yes... the outrageous has morphed to the merely obscene.

As Observer (from the blog Vancouver Price Drop) notes the sellers revoked their $31.9 million listing on September 25th, 2012 and have relisted the property on September 27th for $22.8 million.

That's a reduction of 29%.

Will this become the City's largest price drop vis-a-vis price reductions from highest listing price by the time all is said and done?

Chop 60% off that original asking price and you would come down to $13.3 million. An amount that  would still be more than twice what they paid for it in 2004.

Slash a further 75% from that and, in my opinion, $4 million would still be overpriced.

Such is the current state of the market.

More on this later this week.

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Saturday, September 29, 2012

September Observations



Real Estate sales for the month of September are now officially over.

Vancouver Realtor Paul Boenisch, who provides the figures you see on your right, hasn't provided an update yet so we don't have figures for September 28th at this time.

Another realtor (Rob Chipman) has indicated that we closed out the last sales day of September with only 64 sales.

That will make September 2012 worse than September 2008 and the worst sales total for the month of September since 1994 - when they started compiling these records. This, as you know, follows a summer that was just as abysmal.

The chart below shows you those monthly sales (2012 lacks the reported 64 sales on Sept. 28).


Sales in the suburb of Richmond (formerly a HAM hotbed) continue to be horrendous as well.  Early speculation was that there would be an increase in sales (from homes that had drastically reduced prices below assessment), but even this trend collapsed.

There are currently 1,187 single family houses listed for sale in Richmond. As of yesterday there had only been 53 sales.


That puts also Richmond on pace for the worst September since 1994.

(hat tip to Inventory on VCI for both of these charts)

Observer (from Vancouver Price Drop) notes that the downtown core is starting to see price movement on condos available for sale.


It has everyone keenly watching to see what will happen now in October.

As we noted on Thursday, one Vancouver realtor is forecasting weaker sales in the coming months based on historical data. This is a trend which Jesse, from the excellent blog Housing Analysis, originally identified early in September.

Will be see surging inventory to match this anticipated drop in sales?

October/November historically see the pace of listing decline significantly.  If someone was going to list for fall, they usually do it in September.  Does this mean listings have peaked for the year?

Regular VCI contributor YVR2ZRH offers this insightful analysis:
Van West and East SFH were really some of the only places that were up last month over the previous month. West Van was up but Aug was really low so no surpirse. 
Richmond actually fell even more. It is now down really to a basic trickle. However, Richmond sold way more new builds on large price reductions than tear-downs, which did not seem to sell at all. Condo prices are down. On an average basis, we are down pretty much 5% from last month.  SFH prices were actually down on average but there were some really odd movements in median. There has been a recent slow down of the lower priced tear downs but an increase in the higher priced properties (who have not moved for months – so are now getting big price reductions). It’s like a wave motion where these high priced places finally take price reductions – some after 10-18 months. 
Burnaby, North Van and West Van sold about the same at approx 40 units. 
Inventory increases were large in Van-East attached (13%), North Van SFH (22%) and Burnaby (9%) from the previous month. MOI has just reached 12.0 for REBGV (remember that PaulB includes land/multi which REBGV excludes.) 
Sales in final half of month was at a pace which was 5% above the first half. This is typical. September is supposed to be busy – it wasn’t – no matter how you slice it – it was terrible – but September did tick up from August. 
Thus we should see about 1900 units sold this October. It’s a bit to do with the business days / weekend but 1900 is really possible at today’s sales volumes – this will lead to MOI of 9.8 for Oct. That is not really great but it is a turn from Sep. 
October 2012 will not fall to the 2008 levels – not even close – it’s just not possible. Although we are at 12 for MOI now, we can not expect that to continue and can not expect inventory to increase any more. It may end Oct at the same level as Sep – but we are done. The year is over – it was bad. If you take the YTD sales, I think we are the worst in 15 years. Perhaps when we are done, we will be below 2008.
As always the unfolding story of the real estate bubble is fascinating to watch. 

In 2008 the dismal sales were triggered by the Financial Crisis.

This time around sales are coming in worse than 2008. But, unlike in 2008, collapsing sales will not see intervention from government to prop up the market this time around.

Have we only delayed the reckoning that should have occurred in 2009, and it is finally playing out now?

We shall see.

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Wednesday, August 15, 2012

Wed post #1: What constitutes a price drop?


As we pointed out yesterday, Ozzie Jurock advised his followers that the recent 'adjustment' in average Vancouver prices is far worse than the spin would have you believe:
The real estate market is down 12% on the average price - July over July ... but down a whopping 20% in price over May 2011!!!

July 2012 - $669,000 to July 2011 - $762,000: down 12%

July 2012 - $669,000 to May 2011 - $834,000: down 20% !!

Volume is down too. Listings are higher.
As Ozzie succinctly notes, the average is down 12% on a simply year to year comparison, but go back a couple of months more and the reality is that the average is down a full 20%.

It is in this milieu that some sellers, those hoping to ride the bubble frenzy, are forced to come to grips with reality.

No blog is better for charting this that Vancouver Price Drop.

One faithful reader termed the site 'price drop porn' and it's an apt description as we watch wild real estate speculation crash on the shores of market reality... a trend with are seeing at all levels of the market as asking prices begin to melt to assessed value levels (or in the case of Richmond, often below assessed value).

One can only imagine how huge the drop end up being if we were charting the plunge from asking price to what a property actually sells for.

Take, for example, the land in the outlying suburb of Maple Ridge.


Promoted as a potential high rise site in the town core, the asking price on June 14 was $3,900,000!

Currently the asking price is $1,750,000... a 55% drop.

The assessed value of the property is only $898,000. 

If this property eventually sells at, or near, the assessed value... the asking price will have fallen an astounding 77%. 

If we do have a significant property value correction, this property could conceivably drop over 90% from it's June asking price.

Such is the breadth and depth of the wild speculative mania in our housing bubble.

Ultimately the true measurement of the collapsing of the bubble will be measured by what people paid for a property at the height of the mania vs what they end up selling the same property for once the mania fully implodes.

In the meantime, the blog Vancouver Price Drop is like watching a train wreck.

You are simply mesmerized by what you see.

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Tuesday, July 17, 2012

Tues Post #1: Number of properties where asking prices are below assessed value are growing


Yesterday our friends over at the blog Vancouver Price Drop released their weekly list of properties that have slashed their asking prices significantly.

It's always an intriguing read.

The intrepid Observer notes that it wasn’t that many weeks ago when a 20% cumulative drop would have you in the top 10 of a list of properties that had dropped their asking price. Two weeks ago a record was broken – 20 listings hit a 20% drop during that week.

This week that number was 28 listings with a 20%+ cumulative drop and 12 listings with a 25%+ drop.

Ultimately asking prices are irrelevant.  It's what the property sells for that is important.

But after so many years of seeing homes caught up in bidding wars and selling ABOVE asking prices, it certainly is a harbinger of the market when asking prices are slashed week after week after week.

And while some would argue that many of those listing prices are products of wild expectations, a curious development is the growing number of listings where asking price has been slashed BELOW the assessed value of a property... a clear sign the market is turning.

In this weeks list, 8 of the 18 properties with valid assessment information are now listed below assessment, 5 of those 20% or more below assessment.

7 of the 8 properties listed below assessment were originally listed above assessment – the only exception was originally listed $400 below assessment.

A few of note...

First up is # 2601 1499 W PENDER ST, Coal Harbour, Vancouver West

March 09V918446$2,680,000$00%
April 17V918446$1,900,000$-780,000-29%
July 09V918446removed
July 12V961484$1,770,000$-910,000-34%
Open House: Jul 12

Assessment: $2,289,000
Next is 2404 MATHERS AV, Dundarave, West Vancouver
March 29V939748$1,798,000$00%
April 13V939748$1,698,000$-100,000-6%
May 01V939748removed
May 03V947249$1,598,000$-200,000-11%
Open House: Jun 17, 24
July 09V947249removed
July 11V961286$1,349,000$-449,000-25%
Open House: Jul 15
Assessment: $1,387,200
And here we have13799 20TH AV, Elgin Chantrell, White Rock
March 09F1128278$1,165,000$00%
May 04F1128278removed
May 16F1212743$999,900$-165,100-14%
June 06F1212743$950,000$-215,000-18%
Open House: Jun 10
June 30F1212743removed
July 11F1217909$859,000$-306,000-26%
Assessment: $891,000

And finally: 3577 ROSEMARY HEIGHTS CR, Morgan Creek, White Rock
March 29F1207805$1,015,000$00%
April 13F1207805$998,000$-17,000-2%
May 09F1207805$899,800$-115,200-11%
May 28F1207805removed
Open House: Jun 03
June 01F1213906$828,000$-187,000-18%
Open House: Jun 03, 10, 16, 30
June 30F1213906$800,000$-215,000-21%
Open House: Jul 07, 08, 14
July 12F1213906$789,900$-225,100-22%
Assessment: $808,000

Four examples from around the Lower Mainland of what is sure to become a growing trend.

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