“I’m not worried about a home price rebound as long as the government keeps its tightening stance.”
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“I’m not worried about a home price rebound as long as the government keeps its tightening stance.”
Patrick Wolff, founder and chief executive officer of Grandmaster Capital Management LLC, was on Bloomberg Television's "Money Moves" talking about China.
In his words, China's bubble is starting to break.
The thing that is really striking about China is that there is an extraordinary double standard in the world today. You know, what you have in China is a state dominated, really state controlled, economy. It's, you know, it's not really capitalism by any stretch; it's something different. And it's very striking to me that the same people who would probably be apoplectic at the idea of the US government tightening regulations even a little bit in some area--that I know you were talking about the Volker Rule earlier where obviously there is a lot of debate on that as their should be--but the same people who would be really really upset about that, somehow come to believe that the fact that China's government controls everything in China is a good thing. I don't think it's a good thing; I think it's a bad thing.Another reason we shouldn't expect HAM (Hot Asian Money) to flood in and support the Vancouver Housing Market.
I think there have been years and years of debt-fueled mal-investment. And it's come to a head. And when it breaks, as it seems to be breaking now, it's a long way down.
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"Clearly a crash is underway and the Chinese soft-landing thesis is collapsing.
The “resilient” growth in real estate investment that seemed to promise a “soft landing” is not very resilient at all. It’s more like the last gasp of a market that’s running out of steam. Once the surge in completions plays out, the declining number of new starts will become the pipeline, and growth in property investment will flatten or go negative.
Property investment accounts for roughly a quarter of gross Fixed Asset Investment (FAI), and net FAI accounts for over half of China’s GDP growth. As I noted in January, in a back-of-the-envelope thought exercise, if property investment plateaus (growth falls to zero), it could shave as much as 2.6 percentage points off of real GDP growth. If it fell 10% (in real, not nominal terms) it could bring GDP growth down to 5.3%.
At the time I first saw this dynamic in the data, when the Q1 numbers came out, I figured it would take several months to begin playing out. But the April numbers suggest it is already happening.
"boom of sky-high prices for Vancouver west-side houses – one that provoked media around the world to claim with scant proof that mainland Chinese investors were buying up the city – is fizzling out."
“We’re now seeing a 50% collapse rate in deals, when it’s usually more like 5%.”
“Banks are now requiring borrowers to disclose incomes and assets before mortgages are approved, as of the last six weeks.”
“I always thought that market was not sustainable. Every local person was juiced out of the market. The average household income on the west side doesn’t support those prices.”
From what I can tell, the condo markets in Toronto and Vancouver are even crazier (than the US was). Prices are still going up and the participation of so many foreign investors is indicative of a more vulnerable market than in, for example, Miami in 2004. And that was a complete disaster.
China probably has the largest bubble in the world and when it blows, it’s going to shake the globe. There have been housing bubbles before, but never all over the world. Every time I hear people talk about the housing bubble in the past tense, I cringe.
Artificially low interest rates and lower mortgage standards have enabled your bubble to do a head fake and push even higher. The same thing happened in Australia and China. You guys should be further along the road to recovery than us and you’re not. I would chalk that up to your government policy. Any objective economist should be able to see what’s going on in Toronto and see that it’s a disaster in the making. In the United States, everybody knew that it couldn’t go on forever, but at the root of a mania is the belief that the trees will grow to the sky.
I posted the recent story about that Toronto house that sold for $400,000 over asking price. And it was just a bungalow. It really reminds me of 2004 when Californians were spreading across the whole country, buying property left and right, using their equity from the California bubble to create bubbles in other areas, like Las Vegas. We called them “equity nomads.”
China probably has the largest bubble in the world and the fact that they’re using their bubble wealth to drive up prices in Canada is the rolling-bubble phenomenon playing out on a massive scale. If the real-estate market collapses in China, are they going to close on all these condos they’re buying in Toronto? I kind of doubt it.
It’s even more complicated, because the Australians have a pretty big bubble and their resource-based economy is largely dependent upon China. It’s a house of cards: China goes down, Australia goes down and they drag down the market in Vancouver and Toronto, which trickles down to the U.S. That’s the danger people are willing to ignore when things are going up.
But everyone says it’s different here.
Ask yourself, why are the Chinese buying all these properties in Toronto and Vancouver? To make money. Yes, they say they are really nice places, but they say that about every bubble market.
Florida is a really nice place. California has great weather. I don’t think that justifies paying $400,000 over asking. Toronto was a really nice place 20 years ago, but nobody was paying half-a-million dollars for a condo.
History of Central Banks and why we must End the Federal Reserve
- Ralph Nader on CNN
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