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Collectively we fell into that illusion and it created this spectacular bubble. We have to reflect now that we had a kind of crazy mind-set in the last couple of decades, and we have to get back to thinking like people used to think. Housing is a depreciating asset, goes out of style; it's going to end up in the wrong place. People will want to live somewhere else, so it's not any automatic capital gain.
How did we get this idea that home prices only go up? There are a number of elements of it. I don't know where to start. One of them is that we had a lot of inflation. I'm talking psychology now. You're asking how we got into a wrong view. In the 70s and 80s, we had a lot of inflation and then Paul Volcker came in and stopped it. So inflation has been declining now for 30 years, and we've lived our lives in that environment.
But we still encounter examples when someone says, "My grandmother just sold her house." Especially five years ago, say this happened five years ago. Grandma sold their house for $300,000, and do you know what she paid for it in 1952? It was only $30,000 or something like that. So it went up ten-fold. Now those stories are in all of our repertory, but when you really look at it, what was just consumer price inflation over that period? It was something like that. She really didn't make any money off of it. And she was putting money into it year after year and maintaining it. So we forget that. It's that kind of bias.
Also I think that we're influenced not by population growth so much, but by the sense of the growing wealth of the world and the finiteness of land, and we mistake land for…well that's another thing that happened. We started to think of urban real estate as land. And that's a change in our thinking.
If you go back hundreds of years, there was land speculation in this country, but there was no housing, not much urban housing speculation. So it was common sense. Talk to George Washington, if you could, all right? George Washington was a land speculator, and he owned Mount Vernon as among his speculations. But for George Washington, speculating in real estate meant buying thousands of acres for a shilling an acre or something like that. Not buying a house in the city, so we've changed. It's become much more proliferated as something that everyone does. You buy this house and it's going to make you a lot of money.
It's also just the bubble itself -- the Fed had very loose policy and that encouraged the bubble and prices were going up fast, so that proliferated stories about real estate as an investment. Anyway, that's a complicated analysis of our psychology. But it is a unique phenomenon, really, that it was so national. And it also reflects our better communications now. It wasn't as easily so national in the past.
From what I can tell, the condo markets in Toronto and Vancouver are even crazier (than the US was). Prices are still going up and the participation of so many foreign investors is indicative of a more vulnerable market than in, for example, Miami in 2004. And that was a complete disaster.
China probably has the largest bubble in the world and when it blows, it’s going to shake the globe. There have been housing bubbles before, but never all over the world. Every time I hear people talk about the housing bubble in the past tense, I cringe.
Artificially low interest rates and lower mortgage standards have enabled your bubble to do a head fake and push even higher. The same thing happened in Australia and China. You guys should be further along the road to recovery than us and you’re not. I would chalk that up to your government policy. Any objective economist should be able to see what’s going on in Toronto and see that it’s a disaster in the making. In the United States, everybody knew that it couldn’t go on forever, but at the root of a mania is the belief that the trees will grow to the sky.
I posted the recent story about that Toronto house that sold for $400,000 over asking price. And it was just a bungalow. It really reminds me of 2004 when Californians were spreading across the whole country, buying property left and right, using their equity from the California bubble to create bubbles in other areas, like Las Vegas. We called them “equity nomads.”
China probably has the largest bubble in the world and the fact that they’re using their bubble wealth to drive up prices in Canada is the rolling-bubble phenomenon playing out on a massive scale. If the real-estate market collapses in China, are they going to close on all these condos they’re buying in Toronto? I kind of doubt it.
It’s even more complicated, because the Australians have a pretty big bubble and their resource-based economy is largely dependent upon China. It’s a house of cards: China goes down, Australia goes down and they drag down the market in Vancouver and Toronto, which trickles down to the U.S. That’s the danger people are willing to ignore when things are going up.
But everyone says it’s different here.
Ask yourself, why are the Chinese buying all these properties in Toronto and Vancouver? To make money. Yes, they say they are really nice places, but they say that about every bubble market.
Florida is a really nice place. California has great weather. I don’t think that justifies paying $400,000 over asking. Toronto was a really nice place 20 years ago, but nobody was paying half-a-million dollars for a condo.
"total listings in Vancouver, Fraser Valley and Chilliwack (combined) continue to climb. In a matter of days the Titan accumulation of listings may eclipse the all time high achieved last year."Yatkowsky notes that at this time last year, total listings were 21,705 units. The all time record for total listings was achieved on October 1, 2011 when the market had a record high point of 25,248 listings.
"In recent days we have seen total listings leap higher by 200 and more units per day. Assuming this accumulation continues, it seems feasible to suggest that Total Listings will surpass last years record this month – a full five months ahead of last year."The concern, of course, is that the heavily anticipated Spring Market is failing to materialize.
"It is suspect that the combined weight of both an extraordinarily high number of listings and depressed sales may not need the services of an iceberg to cause upending calamity. Indeed, as many have warned, it may only be a small ripple of a change in interest rates that will be needed to destabilize Vancouver Real Estate’s Titanic voyage."Without a surge in sales to dampen the listings surge normally provided by the Spring selling season, the onslaught of listings over Spring, Summer and Fall could swamp the market.
"The spike in consumer demand recorded a year ago was not repeated last month. A marked increase in high-end home sales a year ago pushed up unit sales and skewed average prices higher."Oh? Isn't that 'spike in consumer demand' called the Spring Market?
"... so it’s no surprise to see fewer home sales and lower average prices in March of this year.”I bet it's a surprise to all of those who thought HAM was supposed to keep out inflated home values high forever.
Downtown condo sales are down dramatically, 23.5%. In 2011 Jan-Feb-March, we had 808 sales; in 2012 Jan-Feb-March, we have 619 sales. We used to have about 11.5 sales per day, now we have 8.5 sales per day...big changes. But the pricing, as far as condo sales is concerned, hasn’t changed all that much... Our listing counts are only up 5%; not a big deal right there... But it goes to show you that people are not really motivated to buy right now... And it goes to show you that sellers aren’t willing to drop their prices, and they’re not motivated to sell right now. So, it’s a bit of a stand-off. Only time will tell if this is going to impact pricing... if people become more motivated to buy, or more motivated to sell... but as far as things are concerned right now, it just means activity is down... Eventually, if this continues, it’s going to impact prices... and I can’t see it going up anytime soon... I can’t see buyers becoming more motivated because mortgage rates are already super-low... and sellers don’t really want to sell all that much, because if they bought in the last two years and they have to sell now they’re going to take a loss. So, it’ll be very interesting to see what happens in the next quarter.Thanks to VREAA for taking the time to transcribe the key points.
Buyers from mainland China and Hong Kong are snapping up luxury homes, often paying cash, in major U.S. cities such as New York, Los Angeles and San Francisco. They're coming by the dozens to buy foreclosed properties in downtrodden cities in Florida and Nevada. Chinese buyers are even starting to snap up pricey commercial buildings and hotels in Manhattan.
In the U.S., the Chinese are now the second-largest foreign buyers of homes, behind Canadians, accounting for $7.4 billion of sales in the 12 months ended March 2011, up 24% from the previous 12 months, according to the National Association of Realtors.
“With Groupon, and the way it exploded, you do get great deals on there, so, why wouldn’t it work with condos, the developer here wants to sell the last few units, so if 20 people come in and buy them all at once, they’re obviously going to get a better deal than coming in one by one.”
I phoned Global TV to complain about this and spent 10 minutes trying to point out why the lack of information about Ms. Fluet’s connection to Cam Good might mislead viewers into thinking her views as an “investor” were impartial.
The woman I spoke to at Global could not for the life of her understand what I was objecting to, even though I tried repeatedly to explain it. In fact, she grew indignant. She insisted that if Ms. Fluet is an investor, it was perfectly appropriate for her to comment even given her connections to Cam Good.
"Real estate Whistler is very popular and in demand and will continue to provide all types of buyers, sellers, and investors with opportunities... Get involved with Whistler properties before the 2010 Winter Olympics.
Have you seen real estate Whistler recently?... There are many different types of properties available today on the market for real estate Whistler. The price ranges vary from as low as $100,000 to over $10 million. Don’t let real estate Whistler values keep you away though as there continues to be a lot of interest in the area. Real estate Whistler will boom through the 2010 Winter Olympics and astute investors will see their profits soar."
Those who own a condo unit in a Whistler hotel are sitting on great potential, but at the moment the units are not showing great value.
Real estate consultant Denise Brown with Re/Max Sea to Sky Real Estate reported that a unit that originally sold in the Four Seasons Whistler for about $1.1 million was recently resold for only $520,000.
"We've seen the prices come down significantly," she said.
"The economic climate in Whistler and around the world was much different and the number of destination visitors to Whistler was larger. People were buying on vision. Revenue has not met expectations in the last few years."
"People were buying on vision. Revenue has not met expectations in the last few years."
"People aren't willing to spend as much in Whistler as they were a decade ago. It's not anything wrong with Whistler or that Whistler is worth less. It is just that people are prepared to spend less."
"Current informal coffee chats with some of my fellow Vancouver Realtors suggest a market in turmoil."
"a market that will have a lot of units for sale and more coming on stream."
As of Feb. 29, 2012, there were 6,000-plus condos for sale through the Vancouver Real Estate Board - up 15% compared to the previous year.At the same time, sales of used condos were down by 18%.Add to this the fact that - according to MPC Intelligence - there are some 8,000 pre-sale condos being launched in the first six months of this year.
"many made a lot of money by 'flipping' pre-sale contracts in the past, but the rules and risks are much different now."Ozzie's right. The rules and risks have indeed changed. And if the restrictive mortgage regulations proposed by the OSFI are implimented, the game will change even more dramatically.
"The Bank of Montreal is putting a scare into anyone heavily invested in Real Estate or heavily in debt."Predictions of a correction in Vancouver Real Estate have now gone mainstream.
History of Central Banks and why we must End the Federal Reserve
- Ralph Nader on CNN
The author(s) of the posts on this site are not investment advisors and they do not offer investment advice. They try to provide some hopefully useful data with sources - especially concerning real estate - and then add their own analysis.
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